A Catholic friend of mine and I were having a short (just a simple question, testing the waters, nothing heavy) discussion about God. I don’t even remember the question I asked. (It’s been a few years.) But I remember her response: “It’s because God exists outside of time!” I also remember the anger that accompanied that response. (Note to self: no more theological discussions with this one.)
Ah, the Kalam argument. I think it was William Lane Craig who came up with that one, but I’m not sure. I haven’t done any research into who/why/where whatever because I think it’s absurd.
The simplistic response (had it been prudent to continue!) would have been to point out the hundreds of Bible passages that clearly show God interacting with humans – in a human timeframe – mentioning day/night, travel, etc. Not even a human timeframe, but an Earth solar/lunar timeframe. Making the sun stand still so Joshua could slaughter his enemies, for example. That’s not only tracking the little war of a few tiny tribes, but it’s changing the physics of the entire universe for his favorite little group of humans so they can destroy the groups that he doesn’t like. There’s another story where god helped Joshua’s army win ONLY as long as Moses held his hands up. Well, god had to be right there watching Moses’ hands, to make that happen. Playing a silly, bloody little game.
I like Deuteronomy 23:13-14 – God (the priests) is getting onto folks to make sure that they bury their excrement, because God walks among your camp. The camp must be clean. God doesn’t wanna step in human patties lol
Leviticus 26:12 puts it more simply: “I will walk among you and be your God.” Walking among humans – whoever does that is in time and in step, if you know what I mean.
And everyone knows that Jacob wrestled with God and saw his face. (Genesis 32:22-32) I find it amusing that the section begins with: “That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok.” Then he wrestles with god (literally, physically, grabbing god) all night, and God renames him Israel for his perseverance. And what about the New Testament – Jesus’ baptism – God’s voice booms from the heavens as a dove descends to rest on Jesus “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:17) Somebody “up in heaven” had to be observing the action below (ok, it’s time, go!) And supposedly everyone at the baptism heard this cloudy loudspeaker announcement and understood it. This is not an ephemeral being who is invisible, unknowable, and “outside time”. This is a spirit watching the action who is fluent in Roman- Era Aramaic.
A creature who is not made of matter and energy – how would that entity interact in any way with a universe that is solely comprised of matter and energy? How would such a being have created billions of galaxies? — If there is an entity capable of creating billions of galaxies, well, maybe it has the capability to – – travel to a place outside of the universe. Sure. But nevertheless, “god exists outside of time” is a convenient dodge, a response used to shut down a conversation. And it certainly disagrees with nearly every Bible passage that speaks about God.
But all of this points to another issue – that leads to more questions and more fallacies – as these apologetic responses usually do. Decision making is a temporal process. A being takes in data (in nearly every Bible story, something that is occurring in real, human time) and choses an action in response to that data. (See all examples above.) Causality is an application of time. If God responds to a situation, then God is not outside time.
God is supposedly omnipotent and omniscient. God knows everything that will happen. Therefore, God cannot change anything that will happen. If he can’t, he’s not omnipotent. If he can change it, he didn’t know what was going to happen, and he’s not omniscient.
See how that goes down the illogical rabbit hole very quickly? Xtians claim attributes to this deity that can’t even exist, then when challenged, they move the goalposts and claim something even more outrageous.
I don’t think any entity can exist “outside time” and will hold that position until shown proof otherwise.
I don’t think God exists “outside time”, or is omniscient or omnipotent or omnipresent.
I think god is imaginary.